[Narrator] Before we start today's event, we would like to acknowledge the land that the Ohio State University occupies, is the ancestral and contemporary territory of the Shawnee, Pottawatomie, Delaware, Miami, Peoria, Seneca, Wyandot, Ojibwe and Cherokee peoples.
Specifically, the university resides on land seated in the 1795 treaty of Greenville and the forced removal of tribes through the Indian Removal Act of 1830. We want to honor the resiliency of these tribal nations and recognize the historical context that has and continues to affect the indigenous peoples of this land.
[Rubin Williams] Hello, my name is Rubin Williams. I'm a fourth-year finance major from Canton, Michigan, and I'm the president of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Incorporated Kappa Chapter.
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was the embodiment of manly deed, scholarship and love for all mankind. Growing up in Atlanta, Georgia, Dr. King faced many inequalities and oppressive systems that face the Black community on the daily. These oppressive systems and inequalities inspired him to become a prominent leader in the civil rights movement.
While he was a prominent leader, he organized many marches, sit-ins, boycotts, and other different forms of peaceful protests.
This holiday is a day to remember all his efforts and his courageous leadership in the fight for equality, despite the different risk and dangers that he faced.
In 1952, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. became a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Incorporated at Boston University through his Sigma chapter. He is one of, if not the most, prominent member of our fraternity. He inspires many different men of Alpha to become better leaders and servants of all, in their community. He inspires many different men of Alpha to get involved in the community and do the work that our fraternity was built upon and that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., himself, carried on through one of the most dangerous times in our history.
A few examples of how Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Incorporated Kappa Chapter provides service and
advocacy for our community here at The Ohio State University is through our annual MLK Day Blood Drive, our annual African American homecoming pageant, where we provide the winners with scholarships, local clothing drives for youth at-risk homes and other events where we allow Black businesses to showcase themselves and to gain exposure. These are just some of the ways that my chapter here at Ohio State tries our best to live up to the standards set by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and our fraternity as a whole.
Please join me in taking a moment of silence and remembering Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
("Lift Every Voice and Sing")
[Singing]
Lift every voice and sing
Till Earth and heaven ring
Ring with the harmonies
Of liberty
Let our rejoicing rise
High as the list'ning skies
Let it resound
Loud as the rolling sea
Sing a song
Full of the faith that the dark past
Has taught us
Sing a song
Full of the hope that the present
Has brought us
Facing the rising sun
Of our new day begun
Let us march on
Till victory
Is won
Stony the road we trod
Bitter the chast'ning rod
Felt in the day that hope
Unborn
Had died
Yet with a steady beat
Have not our weary feet
Come to a place
On which our fathers sighed
We have come
Over a way with the tears
Has been watered
We have come
Treading a path through the blood
Of the slaughtered
Out from the gloomy past
Till now we stand at last
Where the white gleam
Of our bright star
Is cast
God of our weary years
God of our silent tears
Thou who has brought us thus
Far on the way
Thou who has by the might
Led us into the light
Keep us forever
In the path
We pray
Lest our feet
Stray from the places, our God,
Where we met thee
Lest our hearts
Drunk with the wine of the word
We forget
Thee
Shadowed beneath the hand
May we forever stand
True to our God
True to our native land
- Hello and welcome.
[Shayanna Hinkle-Moore ] My name is Shayanna Hinkle-Moore, and I am the president of the Black Student Association here at The Ohio State University. Today, we honor the life and legacy of the great Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and the work that he did in the fight for racial equality and economic justice. In his time here on earth, Dr. King was one of the most hated men in America. The ideas he was fighting for were deemed too radical, and it reminds me of the things we're fighting for today that are also deemed too radical.
In 1963, when he was in the Birmingham jail, Dr. King received a letter from white clergymen saying that the work he was doing was great, but he needed to be patient. They said that if he just waited, that with time, things he was fighting for would just have naturally, and he responded that, without direct action, nothing would change. This should be an inspiration to us because the results of Dr. King's work are everywhere. This should be an inspiration to us to keep fighting and keep pushing for what we believe to be true so that we can live in a society that we want.
Dr. King often preached about radical love, and it is so important for us, particularly in this time, to lead with love because the work that we're doing is taxing on our mind, on our spirits. So honor Dr. King, by fighting, but also honor him by taking the time to rest, to love one another, to create community and support one another. Let Dr. King's love and leadership inspire you.
On behalf of the Black Student Association, I would like to welcome you to the 50th Annual Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Celebration here at the Ohio State University.
("We Shall Overcome")
We shall overcome
We shall overcome
We shall overcome
Some
Day
Oh, oh, oh
Deep
In my heart
I
Do believe
Oh, oh, oh
We shall overcome
Some
Day
We'll walk hand in hand
We'll walk hand in hand
We'll walk hand in hand
Some
Day
Oh, oh, oh
Deep
In my heart
I
Do believe
Oh, oh, oh
We shall overcome
Some
Day
We are not alone
We are not alone
We are not alone
Today
Oh, oh, oh
Deep
In my heart
I
Do believe
Oh, oh, oh
We shall overcome
Some
Day
We shall overcome
We shall overcome
We shall overcome
Some
Day
Oh, oh, oh
Deep
In my heart
I
Do believe
Oh, oh, oh
We shall overcome
Some
Day
[Dr. James Moore] What an act I'm following today. My name is James Moore and I am the vice provost and chief diversity officer at The Ohio State University. On behalf of the entire university and the Office of Diversity and Inclusion, I would like to bring warm greetings and welcome you to our special 50th MLK Celebration, featuring Van Jones.
For half a century, we are proud to have honored a true American hero, a civil rights icon who pointed the way forward for greater inclusion, equality, and brotherhood. When we think of King, we think, remember his famous march on Washington speech, where he describes his dream of a America free of racial prejudice. But when we only focus on that speech, we miss King's other dreams for a country free from war and committed to greater economic prosperity for all.
At the end of his life, King was organizing the Poor People's Campaign, a movement to unify Americans behind issues like equitable pay, unemployment insurance and a fair minimum wage. King had begun to move past dismantling Jim Crow to tackling systemic and institutional barriers to progress for Black Americans. Young people were at the forefront, at the heart of the civil rights movement, at the segregated lunch counters, movie theaters, bus stations and swimming pools. It was the rising generation in the sixties who put their lives on the line in protest. I was thrilled to see that legacy of youth activism continue in the summer of 2020 when a new generation led the demonstrations, in the wake of the killing of George Floyd.
We will hear next from a young activist, graduate student, Amelia Lawson, who will introduce our beloved moderator, Dr. Lori Patton Davis, for tonight's conversation.
Amelia, the floor is all yours. Thank you.
[Amelia Lawson ] Good evening, I'm Amelia Lawson, president of the Black Graduate and Professional Student Caucus, here at The Ohio State University. Each year, the King holiday reminds us of the rejuvenating power of service. Service, as we know, is at the center of Ohio State's mission. And it certainly is at the cornerstone of the work that we do through the Black Graduate and Professional Student Caucus. Each year, an executive board of graduate students serve the academic, social and wellness needs of Black students across the university and the wider Columbus community. We honor Dr. King's legacy, not only through our intellectual contributions, but our commitment to building safe, just and sustainable communities.
I have the esteem honor of introducing our moderator for the evening, Dr. Lori Patton Davis. Dr. Patton Davis is one of the most accomplished and influential scholars in the field of higher education. She is a professor of higher education and student affairs at The Ohio State University and chair of the Department of Educational Studies in the College of Education and Human Ecology. Dr. Patton Davis is also past president of the Association for the Study of Higher Education, the first Black woman to lead the organization. She is best known for her important cross-cutting scholarship on African-Americans in higher education, critical race theory, Black culture centers, Black girls and women in educational and social contexts and college student development. She is the author of numerous peer review journal articles, book chapters, and other academic publications appearing in highly regarded venues and has been cited in multiple publications. And her research has been funded by grants from the Spencer Foundation, Lumina Foundation and American Psychological Foundation. She has received national recognition for her scholarly contributions, including her recent delivery of the American Educational Research Association, "Brown Lecture" in education research, and being listed in Newsweek's scholar rankers among the top 200 most influential educators in the United States. She is a frequently-sought expert on various education topics, the Chronicle of Higher Education, Inside Higher Ed, USA Today, Diverse Issues in Higher Education and dozens of other media outlets have quoted her and featured her research.She has also advised university presidents and other senior administrators, philanthropic foundation executives, culture center directors, and educators in urban K through 12 schools.
Please join me in welcoming, Dr. Lori Patton Davis.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Wow, Amelia. thanks so much for that wonderful introduction. And thank you all for joining us this evening. I have the distinct honor of not only serving as tonight's moderator, but also introducing our amazing featured speaker. Van Jones is a CNN host, political commentator, Emmy Award winning producer, and author of three New York Times bestselling books, "The Green Collar Economy" in 2008, "Rebuild the Dream" in 2012, and "Beyond the Messy Truth: "How We Came Apart, How We Come Together", in 2017. Van has also found success as a social entrepreneur, having founded and led many thriving enterprises, including the Reform Alliance, Color of Change, the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights and the Dream Corps, which works to close prison doors and open doors of opportunity in the green and tech economies.
In 2009, as the green jobs advisor to the Obama White House, Jones' oversaw an $80 billion investment in clean energy jobs. Jones was the main advocate for the Green Jobs Act. Signed into law by George W. Bush in 2007, the Green Jobs Act was the first piece of federal legislation to codify the term, "green jobs". During the Obama administration, the legislation has resulted in $500 million in national funding for green jobs training.
Jones has stewarded several bi-partisan, legislative and advocacy efforts, racking up wins under the last four US presidents, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump. Jones' most recent victory was advocating successfully for the passage of the First Step Act, which the New York Times calls the most substantial breakthrough in criminal justice in a generation.
A Yale educated attorney, Jones has won numerous awards, including the World Economic Forum's Young Global Leader Designation, Rolling Stones' 2012, 12 leaders who get things done. Times' 2009 100 most influential people in the world, the 2010 NAACP Image Award, a 2017 Webby Special Achievement Award, a 2019 Lumiere Award, and a 2020 Primetime Emmy Award for outstanding original interactive program.
Welcome, Mr. Van Jones. Thank you for being with us this evening.
[Van Jones] Well, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] So this is, of course, the 50th Anniversary MLK Celebration. And so I want to start the conversation off by hearing from you about what you would consider to be Dr. King's legacy. And in what ways does his message resonate with you given what we're dealing with in today's society?
[Van Jones] Well, I think that, I see Dr. King as the final founder of America. I think we sometimes fool ourselves into thinking that the United States was founded one day, you know, 1776 or whatever it was and that's it. And now you have, before you had a colony, now you have a democracy and you go forth. That is not true. (laughing)
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Hmm hmm.
[Van Jones] What we had at the very beginning was a settler colonial regime on stolen land from Native American nations that were quite advanced civilizations. In fact, we borrowed from
the Iroquois Federation, and a lot of our ideas about how to make a democracy work. So you had basically stolen labor on stolen land, you had a slave society, a settler colonial regime, and yet even within that, there was still a hope and a dream of a country where we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all are created equal. That wasn't the founding reality. That was the founding dream.
The founding dream, the founding reality was ugly and unequal, even according to Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson is the one that said, "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just". Thomas Jefferson said that about slavery and all the different things that he as a founder, that they weren't able to overcome.
So the founding reality was ugly and unequal, but the founding dream, also by Jefferson, "We hold these truths to be self-evident "that all are created equal", that took almost 200 years to get to. You had to go through a civil war and at that time, it was the bloodiest war in human history. You had to go through a hundred years and the civil war only got you from a slave state to apartheid. You had a hundred years of apartheid. And then finally, with Dr. King and his generation, you finally get in '63, '64, '65, you finally get the breakthrough.
So now you have a Democratic Republic, but Dr. King is the final founder. I would put him at that level, the final founder of a 200-year process of establishing a multi-racial, multi-faith, Democratic Republic, which really only came into being a few years before I was born. I'm a seventh generation American. I'm the first one in my family that was born with all my rights recognized by the government, in seven generations. I was born 1968. The final bills were '64, '65. So I'm the first person in seven generations born in the country with all my rights recognized because of Dr. King and his generation and their great sacrifices. And Ella J. Baker and Fannie Lou Hamer and all of those people, Bayard Rustin and others, John Lewis.
So I say, Dr. King is a final founder of a Democratic Republic.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] So I think, you know, your characterization of him as a final founder is really powerful. How do you navigate the tension between this dream and you know, what's available to you and so many of us right now, versus those who, you know, weaponize what Dr. King has said, you know, to suppress voting rights. Or if we think about what's going on in Texas, to suppress women's rights. What would you say to those of us who are trying to navigate between this dream and, you know, the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King and what we're facing today?
[Van Jones] You know, anytime you have a great person, people want to use that person's name for their own purposes. The reality is we know what Dr. King stood for. And we know that he was for the most radical expansion of opportunity, of voting rights, that he wasn't colorblind. To take one sentence from one speech where he said, you know, the color of my skin versus the content of my character. But what he was, he was colored kind in that he wanted people of all colors to be able to thrive, but he was always willing to recognize that there was some people that needed more help and some people needed more protection, poor folks, folks in Appalachia, Black folks, near the end, he was speaking about Native American, Mexican Americans.
He was always willing to look at the reality of where is the pain and where there's the pain, you have to bring in the protection. And you have to do more for those who have less. The idea that he was some fool, just some idiot, that just couldn't figure out that some people are being mistreated and some people weren't and all he wanted is for everybody to be equal. If you're drowning six feet under water, and somebody else is floating on top of the water, helping everybody come up three feet means you still drown. If you're drowning six feet, you need six feet of help.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Right.
[Van Jones] Oh, you can't do that. You said, treat everybody the same. No, that's a fool's understanding of equality. Can we talk about equity? We mean the ones who don't need that much, you treat them fairly, but you don't give them as much, but the ones who need a lot, of course, in your family, if you have one child that needs more, you give that child more. That's called equity. And so what I would say is people always are going to use and abuse the names of great people, but you do have a generation that is trying to lead us in a different direction than those who I think are misusing his legacy.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Awesome. So one of the things that he was known for was non-violence, right? In your opinion, do you think he would still utilized the same nonviolent approach to civil rights and racial justice that, you know, he was known for?
[Van Jones] Well, yes, but I don't know if that is the most important question to ask about him. In other words, we talk about non-violence. Dr. King was not, Mr. Non-violent. Non-violent was the adjective modifying the noun, direct action. Dr. King was about action, non-violent direct action. We always leave off the direct action. Dr. King wasn't, you know, he couldn't sit there and just let injustice happen and say, well, I'm not non-violent, I'm not going to do anything. Dr. King, even Gandhi said, if he had to choose between being violent and sitting back and letting bad things happen, he would choose violence, but Gandhi said he believed and Dr. King agreed with him, that you have to take action. You have to take action. But the action you take should be non-violent. So Dr. King would definitely be non-violent, but more importantly, he would be taking action. And what I think is important for us to recognize is that more than a century, more than half a century has gone by since Dr. King was killed. Dr. King was murdered in 1968, April 4th, born September 20th, 1968. So I never drew air in the same world with Dr. King. He's been gone half a century now.
And I think what Dr. King would challenge us on is to say, beyond protests, beyond non-violent, direct action, how are we creating a new human civilization that is more at peace with itself and more at peace with the earth because you're in different century and a new human civilization is being born as we speak. And it's not being born based on marches, as important as marches are. It's not being born based on protests, as important as protest are. It's not even being born based on voting or based on the Supreme Court or all those things that we've focused on in the last century. In the new century, the change makers are in Silicon Valley. The change makers are on Wall Street. The change makers are at Google and Facebook and Twitter, And they're coming up with the metaverse and they're coming up with NFTs and they're coming up with artificial intelligence and they're coming up with quantum computing and they're coming up with cryptocurrencies and they're coming up with private space flights and they're coming up with all of these new technologies, which will completely transform human civilization. And there's very little wisdom in those conversations. You have data, but little wisdom.
And the presence of African-Americans and Latinos and Latinas and Native Americans, and often, women of any color, is lacking. So would Dr. King have us marching on Washington DC? He might. Would Ella Joe Baker, Fannie Lou Hamer, Bayard Rustin, John Lewis, Diane Nash, have us marching on Washington DC? They might. But they also might want us to march to Silicon Valley.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Hmm hmm, hmm hmm.
[Van Jones] And to sit and figure out how it is that we get jobs in the technologies of tomorrow so that when you have private space flight, they're not leaving us all behind. (laughing) And when you have artificial intelligence, it's not artificially ignorant of what African-Americans and Latinos and Native Americans and Jewish folks and women go through. And when you have robots, they're not racist. In other words, there's a whole new dimension in finance and technology that is all data driven, all data, no wisdom. The wisdom of his movement, the wisdom of that movement needs to upgrade itself and begin to deal with some of these new things that are coming down the pipe. Dr. King talked about equal protection from bad things, police brutality being one of them. Dr. King mentioned police brutality at the march on Washington. So that's nothing new. So yes, we stick up and we fight for equal protection from bad stuff, equal protection from pollution, equal protection from poverty, equal protection from police brutality. from the prison system. But we also fight for equal opportunity and equal access to good stuff. There's good stuff coming down the pipe, new technology, solar panels, and hybrid vehicles and all kinds of good stuff. Let's not be so committed to marching against the bad stuff that we don't also prepare our young people to help build the tomorrow of the good with technology and finance.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] So some of those bad things that you listed, you know, I think some people might look at those things and consider those as prohibitors to, you know, the good things that you've mentioned, right? There are barriers to access to those things that you've mentioned. So how, again, and my question is always around tension. So, you know, how would you factor in, I guess, some of those bad things that the Black Lives Matter movement and several other movements are trying to bring to the fore versus some of the equal opportunity pieces that you know, are in Silicon Valley? Like how do you deal with police brutality, right, the realities of it or disproportionality and education, all of these pieces that are prohibitive for people of color and racially minoritized folks to even get to Silicon Valley or to even be in the educational spaces and exposed to the opportunities that would get them there to contribute.
[Van Jones] Well, let me just say a few things about that. I think it's the most important conversation that we could have. We have to be able to do two things, at the same time, and that has not changed. Equal protection from the bad, equal opportunity to the good, has always been the agenda. It's just that the good things have changed so radically, the opportunities have change so radically that even the Black middle class, which in some ways, escaped the worst of racial oppression. And if you're Black, you're still gonna catch it. You still gonna have more bad days than you deserve, but we have a Black middle class that is not directly being faced with long prison terms and unhealthy living conditions. A Black middle class is stressed and stretched, and doesn't have the access to the wealth and it gets mistreated on the job, but it's relatively safe, raising children that are prepared to go to college, including the colleges that you're a part of, but we're not talking to them about even that protected group of young people, that has already somehow managed to dodge some of these things and is now in a position to go, we're not telling them go to Mars. We're not telling them focus on quantum computing. We're not telling them, you know, now, we're beginning to have have the conversation about crypto and NFTs or whatever. That's new.
And so there are two things that you have to worry about, if you're oppressed. One is what your oppressor is doing and their strategy for holding you down, but the other and how you blunt that, but the other is what is your strategy for lifting us up? And I don't think that we can say, for the small number of African Americans, who have managed to at least have a shot, that we have updated the conversation enough. I'm (audio fades) with African Americans. Look, I went to law school, but I'm proud of it. I went to Yale Law School. When my father passed away, the pictures they put on the funeral program was Willie Jones standing in front of Yale Law School with his hands in the air because his boy graduated from there. So I'm proud. But would I send myself, now, to law school? The law degree was a great degree in the last century. In fact, the Kennedy's had a law degree. Gandhi had a law degree. Nelson Mandela had a law degree. Castro had a law degree. Vladimir, Lennon had a law degree. Everybody in the last century had a law degree 'cause the last century, the issue was statehood, civil rights, citizenship. Are the colonies going to be free? Or are we going to be oppressed? Those are all questions for lawyers, Constitutions, going to Supreme Court, voting, lawyers. This new century is not about statehood and citizenship. This new century is about commerce and communications. And you look at all the great titans now, the Elon Musks of the world and the Zuckerberg's, all these great, great titans. They're not lawyers. They hire lawyers. They're not lawyers.
So what I'm trying to say is, I don't think, Dr. King was so far ahead of his time. I think he would want us to stay ahead. Dr. King was an Afrofuturist. We would call Dr. King an Afrofuturist, today. A dream is about the future. Something has happened, I believe, that we have to be careful of. I love Black History Month. But I would trade it about five Black History months for one Black future weekend, at this point. What is the Black future? That's what Dr. King asked. What is the Black future? And that there is no Black future that doesn't have us deal with two things, pushing back on the prison system, pushing back on police brutality, pushing back on racism, but pushing forward to use the tools that are available in technology and finance, which we don't talk enough about, to make sure that when we, listen, let me just say one thing to you. There are trillion dollar industries that are getting started right now. Trillion dollar industries, that nobody controls. They're brand new. We should be at the table with the new industries. Again, crypto, blockchain, artificial intelligence, augmented reality, virtual reality, all that stuff. When we go on the Shade Room (laughing), we should be talking about that! When we go on, when we open up Essence Magazine and Ebony Magazine and Black Enterprise, we should be talking about that because in 10 years, a trillion dollar industry that was created on our watch that we didn't participate in. Is that only racism? Is that only white racism or is that also a bad black strategy? Dr. King held himself accountable for having good black strategy in the face of white racism. He didn't just point to the white racism.
And so that's what I take from Dr. King. Be about the future. Be about the strategy to make sure that you're not only always protesting that. - So, you know, what does that strategy look like? I'm fascinated by this idea of bad black strategy, but like, what, what does that look like? I'm in a space, an educational space, of course. And I'm still trying to grappling with why it's so bad to teach kids the truth about history, right? It certainly doesn't get you into, you know, Silicon Valley, per se, but it does give you a sense of identity and who you are, and these sorts of things that contribute to a strong education, right? So help me unpack this.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Look, I can only tell you what I do. I'm a part of something called the Dream Corps. We are located in Oakland, but we're a national organization. Our slogan is "Close prison doors, "Open doors of opportunity". "Close prison doors, open doors of opportunity". So on the one hand, we have a massive campaign to shrink the prison system. We're $20 million organization. We have almost a hundred full-time staff. We are working very hard. We've passed 22 bi-partisan bills in red states and blue, to try to shrink the prison population. At the same time, you know, we say 21st century jobs, not jails. You also have to focus on the jobs and the opportunities. And so we interact with major Silicon Valley corporations, and we challenge and invite them to hire our young people. We run workshops and programs for our young people through something called "Yes, We Code", a program I started with Prince when he was alive. And we are insisting that we stop wasting genius. We have genius in our communities. We have the most creative, young people. The most imaginative young people. They take to technology like fish to water. Black Twitter is most of Twitter. (laughing) You know what I mean? But we know how to download those apps. We don't know how to upload those apps. That's the crime against our young people, that we wind up being creative consumers of technology, not creative producers of technology. And since technology is the future and Dr. King talked about the future and talked about the dream, our dream for this generation has to include technology as the creative producers, not just the creative consumers. And that conversation is a 21st century conversation, that I think it's very consistent with Dr. King.
And I'll tell you this. Even under the worst of our conditions, I mean, when we were enslaved, like two minutes after we were enslaved and had been brutalized for centuries, within a generation, we had the best educational institutions in the world in terms of the Black colleges and the Black church. You say, Van, you've gone too far. How can you say you got the best educational institutions in the world? What about Harvard? What about Yale? Where did Dr. King come from? Where did Thurgood Marshall comes from? They came from Black churches and Black colleges that literally people have been enslaved in their lifetime, started and built and ran and created the brain trust that saved America and turned America into a democracy. Harvard did not finish the work of making this a Democratic Republic. Yale did not finish the work of making this a Democratic Republic. It was the Morehouse's. It was the Fisk's. It was the Spelman's. It was Black colleges. It wasn't a white church that could complete the work. It was Howard Thurman and Albert Cleage, and Dr. King and others. And I say that with some passion, because if they could do that under the worst conditions, under the most brutal, dehumanizing conditions in the history of the world, then I refuse to accept that our students can't then go and take over Silicon Valley or anything else they choose to do. They've already taken over all of the sports. They've already taken over all the entertainment. They've already taken over half of politics, and the Democratic party. They can take over Silicon Valley. They can take over Wall Street and use it for better purposes. So I just refuse to accept the narrative that says that we are so beat down and so brutalized and so mistreated that we can't do this and we can't do that. No, no, no. Not only can we, we always have. And so the history that you're teaching which we have to fight to teach, is not just the history of victim hood. They want to pretend that we're only teaching victimhood and oh, everybody feels so bad and so guilty. Y'all ain't worried about that. You worried about us teaching the victory over those conditions, the victory over that oppression and the example that gets set. When you say, yes, you mistreated my mother, yes, you mistreated my grandmother, but she stood up and I will, too. That's what they don't want to hear.
And so, I just think that we are in danger now of succumbing to a kind of depression and a kind of sense of the helplessness, because these devices hit us upside the head every day with so many bad images and so much brutality that we start feeling like we can't do anything and that we're just... And I'm going to tell you right now, yes, that a lot of bad stuff happened to us, but there is no generation of African-Americans that wouldn't be happy to trade places with us right now to put us on the ground floor of a movement that can not only make Black America better, it could make the whole world better. If you put, if you take the same generation out here in these streets, marching and protesting, who are willing to brave a pandemic, police brutality, and anything else for justice, and you put them in a position where they can also not just make the politics better, but make the economy better, everybody's going to benefit. So I'm passionate about it. - You sound very passionate about it. (both laughing)
So I'm gonna switch gears to a few other questions and you kind of addressed some of these in your comments, but I want to talk a little bit about infrastructure. And I know that you know about the Build Back Better plan. One, I'm interested in knowing how you think that fits in with Dr. King's vision. What does the future of this infrastructure deal look like, you know, in Congress, given what's going on? Like, can you speak to that? - Sure. Look. I'm gonna say something that will make some people happy, and will make some people sad. Everything in the bill, almost everything in the Build Back Better proposal is very popular in both parties. You talk about family leave, helping mamas and daddies be mamas and daddies, when there's a sickness, when there's a baby born, when there's a death in the family. Republican voters overwhelmingly approve that. When you talk about helping with childcare, elder care, all of us are suffering in my age group with either ailing parents, you know, who really we can't do enough for, can't afford to, don't have the time or dealing with children and grandchildren who, given how the work situation is going, they're not getting what they need. So I'm just gonna say to my sisters and brothers, Republican and Democrat, ask your voters if they like these different pieces and parts and they're all popular and they're all needed. This isn't some socialist agenda. This is real basic stuff, that frankly, most advanced countries had a long time ago, elder care and child care and stuff like that. And I mean, this is crazy. It's crazy. So it's a crime and a shame to me that we can't get together and get some of those things done. What I will say about it is going forward, some of these pieces and parts might ultimately, can get across the finish line and I hope that they will. I do hope that they will, but even if they don't, what I would say is this. Both parties did come together early last year to pass an infrastructure bill for the (audio fades) infrastructure of the country. And it's embarrassing, as an American, these potholes and falling down bridges and subways that look terrible and stuff like that. And so, some good is already coming. And I think it's very important that we acknowledge and celebrate the fact that we have come together to get some things done, but the next thing they need to get done are things that Dr. King was calling for 50 years ago and that Republican and Democratic voters desperately need today. And it's a bad sign that we can't actually deliver on what Republican and Democratic voting families need, because nobody wants to give Joe Biden a victory, or because somebody called it socialism. They called Dr. King of socialist. But he's got a statue and a holiday because of the values that he stood for, that are represented in that Build Back Better bill.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] I think, I ask the same thing, you know, with regard to the Texas abortion law and commentary that it disproportionately affects racially minoritized women. But again, what do you think Dr. King would have to say about this regression and such legislation? - You know, I don't know what Dr. King's position on a woman's right to choose abortion was. I think that issue became more of a hot issue in the seventies when Roe V. Wade was passed, I think in '73... But I don't know his position on that issue in particular, but I know that if he were alive today, his position would be that women deserve more rights and more freedom. And... You know, we're in an interesting moment. If you had told me a couple of years ago that you would have this much attack on women's reproductive freedom, I would have expected a massive blow back from women. And I think this summer, the Supreme Court will wipe out Roe V. Wade. And I don't know what the political reaction will be. So it's hard for me to speak for Dr. King on this. What I will say is that, sometimes you don't know what you got until it's gone. And I think you may have people who don't understand the importance of women's reproductive freedom and that when it's gone, they may understand it better, understand it differently, but I don't think I'm qualified to say what Dr. King would say about it.
[Van Jones] Okay. With regard to voting rights, right, there's a lot of discourse and conversation around protecting voting rights and getting Congress to act. What's your take on that? Again, not necessarily speaking to what Dr. King would think, but given his legacy and his fight for equality. - Well, you got three challenges now, when it comes to voting rights. On the one hand, the reaction on the part of, I think the worst part of the Republican Party to the 2020 election has been distressing. It's increasing... It's nonsense. That somehow there's all this voter fraud that nobody can find and all the courts can't find it. Nobody can find it. That's very, very distressing. But what it means is that there is a legitimacy crisis on the right, in this country, with regard to the last election. Now they're moving to do all kinds of things at the state levels in many red states that would make it harder to vote, not impossible to vote, but harder to vote. Some of those things seem to be very targeted only at counties that you know, the counties where they had souls to the polls, it's counties where they did certain things that were effective, now that's illegal. In Georgia, you can't bring food to people in line, just crazy stuff.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Hmm hmm.
[Van Jones] That has nothing to do with voter fraud. I mean, like, was somebody gonna bring a fraudulent sandwich? Like, what are you talking about? That has nothing to do do... So now you have voter suppression and, thirdly though, much more dangerous than the first two. The first one is a legitimacy crisis where you have people who just doubt the election. That's dangerous in a democracy. Number two, now you have laws being passed to make it harder to vote. That's dangerous in a democracy, but we can handle that. We don't want to, but if we have to stand in line for 57 hours, then fine. You know, we shouldn't have to do that, but you can survive that. What you can't survive is number three. Putting people in positions to count the vote who will cheat when they count the vote, voter subversion, not suppression, which we don't like, but can survive. Voter subversion. Now, that's dangerous. What am I talking about? In the last election, 2020, the reason you had the outcome that you had, which was a peaceful transition of power to Joe Biden, except for one unprecedented instruction, is because of three things. Number one, there was a virus. And that really messed up the economy and made Trump much more vulnerable. Number two, you had Black women, especially in the South, who outvoted everybody, who outworked everybody, who put the country on their back and delivered for Biden and for the Democrats, victories that you've never seen. Georgia, you know, sending two, not one, but two Democratic senators. Unheard all. On the back of Black women.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Thank you for saying that. Go ahead.
[Van Jones] Yeah. Yeah. And then number three, surprisingly, the other factor, the other leg of the tripod, conservative White men who voted for Trump, but who, as election officials, still counted the votes fair. There were conservative White men in Georgia who voted for Trump, but they counted the votes fair. And when Trump called them and said, I want you to cheat, they said, I'm not going to cheat. They said, I care more about the Constitution and America than I care about any one election or any one president. That happened across the country. There were conservative White men on benches, as judges, including some appointed by Trump, who, when he said cheat, they said, we refuse to cheat. So why do you have the outcome? An unprecedented virus, unprecedented contribution of Black women, and the surprising commitment of conservative White men to the Constitution over the president. Well, what's happening now is those conservative White men who did the right thing are now being run out of office in their own party. They're being mistreated and talked about bad on social media, in their own party. Many of them almost regret that they stood up for the Constitution. And now they're putting in new people who will be much more likely to fold under the pressure. Now that is dangerous. Now again, but the big lie as we call it, in the Democratic party, that's dangerous. Voter suppression, trying to make it hard to vote, that's dangerous. But voter subversion? We're just going to reverse whatever you voted for? That is fatal!
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Hmm hmm.
[Van Jones] - And we need to, look, I'm tired of talking about the big lie. I'm tired of talking about the suppression, but we've got to talk more about the subversion because then, you could have a million people vote and it doesn't count. So we need a cheat proof election. We need a cheat proof election. And that is something that we should be able to come together on, right or left, Black, White, Brown, Democrat, or Republican. A cheat proof election to make sure that we don't have a situation where, now, y'all, didn't believe 2020 and we don't believe 2024 because nobody acting right. That's how you go from civilization to civil war. And so this voting rights stuff now, is not just a partisan issue now. It may become a survival issue for the country. We've got to deal with it more seriously.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] - So in your comment, you've mentioned, you know, the insurrection on January 6th, right? And it was somewhat of an unprecedented moment, I guess, but I'm wondering what is your take on how that moment has shaped some of the things you just spoke about with regard to moving people who were willing to stand up to Trump and pushback, or, you know, weren't willing to do some of the things he was asking. They are pretty much being pushed away by people who would've supported that insurrection. And I don't look at that as just something that happened on January 6th, but perhaps having a long term effect on our politics. Do you have a comment or a thought on that?
[Van Jones] Hey, look, I'm very concerned. I mean, when I was on the air, live on TV, when this instruction was happening and it was shocking. It was like something out of a movie, right? You know, you think some other country. You just had a bunch of crazy people run up in the Capitol in the middle of the joint session of Congress and try to hang the vice-president. You think, is this even real? And as the night wound down, I thought to myself, first of all, if that had been a bunch of Black people, they would have all been shot down.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] - Absolutely.
[Van Jones] If a bunch of Mexicans had run in there, they'd all been shot down. A bunch of Muslims in there, they'd all been shot down and every other Muslim in America would have been rounded up. But somehow this one group can go up in there and do whatever they want to and walk out, just walk out! (laughing) That was amazing to me and then, I think to myself, I'm here in Los Angeles. How many young African Americans and Latinos and Latinas are in jail because they were with the wrong group at the wrong time? Conspiracy charges, because you were with Jose or you are with Pookie or you were with Snoopy and Snoopy did some dirt. So all y'all are going down because all of y'all are a part of a criminal conspiracy. "But I didn't do nothing!" "Well, you were with Pookie "and you knew what Pookie was doing so now you going". I can't tell you how many people I know who are in jail or in prison doing big time, because they were just with the wrong person at the wrong time. You got 10,000 people run up in the Capitol in the middle of a joint session of Congress? Beating up police officers? All 10,000 should be in jail based on what you've put us in jail for, based on the same conspiracy charges you put Pookie and Snoopy and Shanae-nae and Little Run Run in jail, on. How come, I don't care what you did. "I didn't do anything". "Well, you were there". Well, if they can walk out with no consequences, then all our young folks should be able to walk out of prison with the same, no consequences. This is why we say, there's no equal justice, because you can look, just as being a Black person, just looking at the world, you can see completely different treatment. I can't imagine if 10,000 Black people had run up in there and said, we want Barack Obama to be president. We're beating up cops. You better do it. First of all, they wouldn't have survived. They would've just bombed them. And every single, the Uber driver who brought them there would be in jail. The person at Waffle House who fed them that morning, would be in jail.
So, but what I said at the time was, is this the end of something? Or is this the beginning of something? Is this the end of the Trump presidency, or a death rattle? Or is this the birth cry of something much more dangerous? I said that live on air. I said, I don't know. Is this the end of something? Or is this the beginning of something? I'm sad to say, I think it was the beginning of something. I think we have a much more dangerous, much more frightening, much more sophisticated movement that looks at January 6th, not as a tragedy, but as a trial run. Out of the tragedy, there's a trial run. And I think that they are very serious about making sure that the next time, by hook or by crook, they come out victorious. And we haven't seen that in this country. We see it in other countries, but in this country, even when Al Gore lost by 37 votes in Florida, in 2000, he said, "Okay, I lost". Now, we were mad as hell because we felt like that 37 votes was, you know, they could reach out and get 37. 37 votes, he let the whole presidency go over 37 votes in Florida. That's what we expect from our leaders. Now you got somebody lost by five million votes and won't let it go. That's very, very scary. And the fact that people are going along with it, is scary. So...
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Okay. So I definitely want to get to questions from the audience. So I'll ask one final question. Given, you know, the start of something new and different, and it's not looking too positive, could you offer just a final commentary. Based upon what you know of Dr. King, his dream, his philosophy, how might we use what he's contributed as inspiration for dealing with this unknown or this unprecedented beginning that we're embarking on?
[Van Jones] The only thing I would say, the only thing I would say is this. Dr. King had to deal with some ugly folks. He had to deal with people who were literally lynching people, in real time. They were shooting down our leaders, in real time. They were shooting down, you know, Medgar Evers. They were shooting down Malcolm. I mean, in real time. I don't mean like, oh, it's in a history book. I mean today, oh, they shot another one. Or they killed another one. People you knew people. People you had been to meetings with. People you had been to press conferences with. Murdered, killed, beaten. Oh, so-and-so's in jail. They're not gonna let him out, you know. He dealt with some ugly people and there was no guarantee he was going to win. He didn't know if it was going to be another year, decade, century, thousand years. And he was very young. 24 years old in Montgomery. 33 years old on the steps of the Washington Monument. He's only 39 when he got killed. I'm 53. He was 39 when he, he never saw his 40th birthday. So you have a very young guy dealing with some very ugly people in very nasty circumstances, losing his friends, you know, people being beaten and killed but he focused on beauty, he brought a beauty to this work. And that's something that I think we sometimes forget is the power of our own beauty, the power of our own dignity, the power of our own moral witness. He said, I don't care what you do to me. You're not gonna pull me so low as to hate you. You're not gonna pull me so low as to, for me to surrender my dignity. And I think that that's no longer as popular. I think we, sometimes, try to outhate the haters or outrage the outragers.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Hmm hmm.
[Van Jones] I just don't think, I just don't think that we're that good at hating people. I just don't think that we're good at it. I just think the other people are much better at hating people and being horrible and disrespectful. I just don't think that comes naturally to our community. And so I would just say, no matter what happens, us continuing to stand for what's right. We for everybody's babies being able to eat. We for everybody to be able to have some clean air and clean water. We're for everybody having dignity, starting with our community 'cause we have at least of it, but we're not against, we're not participating in a politics of, I'm better than you, you're better than me. I want your kids to do well. And goddamnit, you need my kids to do well, too. Now let's be in this together. That moral compass, that moral center, I see us, sometimes, becoming what we're fighting, turning into what we're fighting, letting the tone and the tenor and the nastiness of the people that we're fighting affect us. And I just don't want that to happen. Listen, you can criticize me or you can praise me. One thing you're never gonna get me to do is to walk away from that part of Dr. King, or that part about the Black church or that part of my grandfather. My grandfather walked with his head held high, in the Deep South, as an educator. And I watched that, I saw it. I mean, I grew up in rural West Tennessee. I saw the dignity of Black people, dealing with a very undignified adversary and we refused to let them set our template. We refused to let them determine how we were gonna be. And by us sticking with who we are, we moved the world. And I think we need to stick with that, no matter what they do to us.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Thank you so much. So I am going to turn it over. I see one question, I'll ask. Hopefully, you can get some good advice. There is a first year law student who is one of four Black men in his class. And he's curious about strategies for, quote, unquote, "Picking your battles "and combating problematic situations in the classroom". So do you have any thoughts based upon your own days in law school or any advice you would offer to the student?
[Van Jones] Look, law school is a dojo. You know what a dojo is? A dojo is, it's an arena where you practice martial arts. So the classroom is a dojo. And you're learning how to argue. You're learning how to fight. You're learning how to get your point across. It's a tricky balance for you because, just personally, you don't wanna have to fight every day about everything. You know, you're not there to try to correct other people or teach other people or save the soul of every, you know, wayward, you know, racist or sexist or whatever. And so at the same time, you don't want to just let a lot of nonsense go by and you don't learn how to speak back. So what I would suggest that you do is see this as an opportunity for you to develop your advocacy. It's not about fixing anybody. It's not about, you want to try to make a convincing argument, but it's not even about trying to convince other people. It's about, if I can get through this law school, if I can make all the basic arguments around contracts and torts and all that sort of stuff and win those battles, and I also know how to, I know how to express myself, convincingly and effectively, about some of these racial issues, then I got two degrees for the price of one.
But what you don't want to do is feel that you have to be the moral police of every single person around you all the time. It's exhausting.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Yeah.
[Van Jones] And it's not, you probably not going to be effective. The key is to be able to do it effectively, to actually say it and make them actually, say, I should actually listen to this dude, I should listen to this woman, as opposed to you just reacting to everything. And now you just become almost a joke. So you're in a tough situation, but that's what law school is. If you're an African-American student and you care about your community, you're gonna wind up with two degrees for the price of one, and you're gonna have to do everything that all the other students do, and you have to become effective at speaking and advocating for our causes. But you are not the moral judge or referee or fixer or salvation for your school. You're not. Educating other people? Education costs money. That's why you pay tuition, okay? You shouldn't be a free professor to everybody at your school. They're not paying you to educate them. You are there for yourself so you can get better, so you can learn how.
So, yes, pick certain battles. Try to get better. Don't take it personally. Be glad when there's opposition. Be glad when there's people who are pushing back or who don't agree or who are tough on you, because you're good. When you out in his world, the world is tougher than law school. So, but if you're doing it for your benefit, you're doing it for your growth, you're doing it for your ability to be good at your job, and you don't take it personally. They came to law school for their reason. You came to law school for yours. If they want to be a sparring partner with you, they're helping you get stronger. Thank them at the end. Thank you for being obnoxious. Thank you for not understanding. You're gonna force me to get better, explaining myself. You're gonna force me to understand how other people might see it. You're gonna force me to get better at what I came here to do, which is to help me and my community. You have that attitude, you'll be tough on you, but you'll come out with your head held high. And I'm going to tell you,
I was a firebrand in law school. They used to call me Black Napalm, 'cause that would be on 'em. I would be on 'em. But I also listened and I tried to make my arguments better and if I got beat in class, I got beat in class. And now 30 years later, a lot of those people I used to argue with, they are friends or they are, at least people who have respect for the fact that I used my education, just as I said I would, to try to help improve the lives of people who have less. And so, yeah, pick your battles, but battle, okay? Like don't just sit there and just take it. You know, you might want to pick a time or two. Some people are just combative and like me, just like to fight. You might be a little bit more passive, but don't just sit there and not say anything. Learn how to say it and say it over and over again until you're a ninja of this stuff.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Right, so I have one last question and I think is a perfect question to sort of round out our conversation. How can the everyday person who might feel powerless in affecting positive change in the country, support the fight for building the world MLK dreamed of?
[Van Jones] You know, people ask me that. And what I believe is that people already know the answer. I don't... You already know, in your heart, what you want to do, to help people. Everybody has that in them. I don't believe God left that out of anybody. Now, can you run for president? That's not for everybody. Be on the Supreme Court? That's not for everybody. But can you mentor a child? Can you finish that book you've been promising, you're gonna write and have written? Can you join a cause or join a group and try to be helpful? Yeah. Nobody can do everything. And this problem is hard to fix. Nobody can do everything, but everybody can do something. And everybody can do a little bit more than they're doing. So I would never say to anybody, oh, do this or register voters or work on this bill because you already know what to do. You already know. Look back in your journals. Look back in your conversation. You already know. All the stuff you want to do, think about doing, ain't never going to do, do that! (laughing) Because if all of us just did that one thing we're supposed to do, the whole thing would be a whole lot better off.
[Dr. Lori Patton Davis] Awesome. All right, well, first of all, thank you so much for an engaging conversation. You gave us a lot to think about. Thank you for spending time with us for this MLK Celebration. And I want to also close by thanking the Office of Diversity and Inclusion, the Frank Hale Black Cultural Center, to all of the students and staff and everyone who worked so diligently to make this event successful. Have a good night, everyone.
[Van Jones]Thanks for the opportunity. (upbeat jazzy music)